Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Before we begin, this episode contains content that some listeners may find sensitive.
[00:00:07] Listener discretion is advised.
[00:00:28] This is the Access Pregnancy Post Roe Podcast and I am Mia Braun.
[00:00:37] We began our first Too Many episodes focusing on Amanda Zyrowski and the original plaintiffs in Zyrofsky vs State of Texas case.
[00:00:48] As we continue to focus on the women whom abortion bans have directly impacted in today's episode, we will describe the additional plaintiffs stories in this case.
[00:01:01] More women joined the Zurofsky vs. State of Texas lawsuit because their individual experiences highlighted the widespread and devastating consequences of Texas's restrictive abortion laws.
[00:01:18] Many of the women faced severe pregnancy complications or fetal abnormalities that should have fallen within the medical exceptions outlined in the abortion bans.
[00:01:30] Their experiences revealed the vagueness and unworkability of these exceptions, showing that doctors were often afraid to provide medical care due to fear of legal repercussions.
[00:01:47] Dr. Austin Dennard, an OB GYN, is a resident of Dallas, Texas and a mother of two. At 11 weeks pregnant with her third child, she was informed that her baby had anencephaly. Anencephaly is a severe birth defect that occurs when the neural tube fails to close properly during the early stages of fetal development.
[00:02:12] This results in a baby being born without major portions of the brain, skull and scalp that would not allow her baby to be born with a chance of survival.
[00:02:23] Sadly, Dr. Dennard had been through this before she and her husband made the difficult choice to end her first pregnancy after their baby was diagnosed with a rare genetic condition.
[00:02:37] Before the abortion bans in Texas, Dr. Dennard was able to obtain care in her local clinic. With the new bans, her care with this new baby would have to be taken care of outside of the state.
[00:02:51] Dr. Dennard learned that her patient, Lauren Miller, who was previously mentioned in our second mini episode, had to go through the same experience.
[00:03:02] This helped her decide to join the case in order to share her story.
[00:03:12] When Kylie Beaton of Fort Worth, Texas discovered she was pregnant with her second child, she and her husband were thrilled. At Kylie's 20 week scan, she was informed that the baby she was carrying had a condition called hiloprosencephaly. This condition affects the brain's development of the baby and their head grows abnormally quick.
[00:03:38] After learning the baby would barely survive past birth, Kylie considered traveling to New Mexico for abortion care.
[00:03:47] Unfortunately, the baby's head was already measuring at close to 24 weeks, which is a size past the gestational cutoff. For the New Mexico clinic, Kylie had no choice but to continue her pregnancy. At Kylie's 28 week ultrasound appointment. She begged to be induced before the baby's head grew too large to deliver vaginally, but her doctor refused due to the Texas abortion bans.
[00:04:18] At 35 weeks, Kylie was rushed to the hospital with abdominal pain. She was finally sent for an emergency cesarean. Her baby died four days after he was born.
[00:04:32] Kylie has said that having to go through the birth and death of her son made losing him much harder. She now fears for her health, safety and ability to get pregnant again in the future.
[00:04:51] After two years of fertility challenges, Jessica Bernardo from Frisco, Texas was thrilled to discover she was pregnant.
[00:05:00] At 14 weeks pregnant, Jessica was advised that her baby likely had down syndrome.
[00:05:07] Jessica and her husband started to research how to support children with disabilities.
[00:05:13] But Jessica soon learned that her daughter also had other severe medical conditions, including fetal anisarca and would not survive birth.
[00:05:24] Continuing her pregnancy would put Jessica at risk of developing a potentially fatal condition.
[00:05:32] Jessica's doctors reached out to the hospital's ethics committee for an exclusion to the Texas abortion bans, but the request was denied.
[00:05:43] Initially, Jessica and her husband planned to travel to their other residence in Colorado to have their abortion taken care of, but after finding out that all of the clinics were booked, they had to travel to Seattle.
[00:05:58] Jessica was the third patient from Texas that week alone.
[00:06:03] Jessica describes this experience as the worst trauma of her life. She is now terrified to get pregnant again naturally in Texas and has since decided to start IVF.
[00:06:22] Samantha Cassiano learned at her 20 week scan that the baby she and her partner were expecting had anencephaly and would not survive.
[00:06:34] When she asked her doctors what options she had, she was told her only option would be to continue the pregnancy since she lacked the time, finances and resources to travel out of state.
[00:06:48] As the months wore on, Samantha noted how excruciating it was to have people constantly congratulating her as she worried about how she would afford her child's funeral.
[00:07:00] Samantha's baby girl was also breech, which means positioned backwards. Normally this would require a cesarean section, however was not given that option. She noted the hypocrisy of treating her daughter like a healthy baby as she carried her to term, but when it was time to deliver, it was no longer something considered.
[00:07:23] Samantha's daughter died a mere four hours after being born. Samantha was able to give her baby a small funeral but wished she could have put her to rest sooner since she was going to have to bury her either way.
[00:07:43] Taylor Edwards from Austin, Texas learned at 17 weeks pregnant that her daughter had a fatal condition called encephalocele and would die at or before birth.
[00:07:57] Continuing the pregnancy could also pose health risks to Taylor. Taylor went to a new doctor for a second opinion.
[00:08:07] Once the diagnosis was confirmed, Taylor decided to travel to New Mexico to have an abortion. Despite the daunting logistics and expense, Taylor was told that if she had exposed experienced this pregnancy a year and a half before, they would have been able to help her properly. Just three hours before Taylor's flight was scheduled to leave, the New Mexico clinic canceled her appointment due to a shortage of medication needed for the procedure.
[00:08:39] Taylor tried to find a new appointment in New Mexico, but none were available.
[00:08:46] Soon, Taylor started vomiting daily. Struggling both physically and emotionally, Taylor became terrified that she would be too far along for an abortion by the time she found an appointment.
[00:09:01] Eventually, she was able to obtain an appointment in Colorado. As she returned to Texas, Taylor felt like she had to start over with IVF treatments. And although she and her husband would love to have a child, she is fearful of becoming pregnant in the state of Texas.
[00:09:25] Kirsten Hogan was surprised and excited when she learned she was pregnant. Unfortunately, Kirsten's boyfriend became violent and insisted she get an abortion.
[00:09:38] Kirsten left him and moved to Texas.
[00:09:41] Several instances of cramping and bleeding sent her to the emergency room. Doctors repeatedly assured her that everything looked normal. However, just weeks after the Texas abortion ban, Senate Bill 8 took effect, Kirsten's water broke.
[00:09:59] Hospital staff told Kirsten that if her cervical insufficiency had been diagnosed earlier, she could have had a procedure to prevent this, but now it was too late.
[00:10:11] Kirsten was forced to stay in the hospital against her will, where religious counselors repeatedly came to visit her and staff told her that if she tried to leave, it could be used as evidence that she was trying to kill her baby.
[00:10:29] Four days later, Kirsten delivered her stillborn son. She says being detained against her will made her feel like a criminal. During the biggest medical emergency of her life, Lauren Van Vliet and her husband were delighted to learn she was pregnant.
[00:10:53] After a severe snow and ice storm delayed Lauren's 20 week scan by two weeks, the couple was told that their son had anencephaly and would not survive due to abortion laws in Texas, Lauren's doctor told her there was nothing they could do but wait for the baby's heart to stop beating or carry the pregnancy to term.
[00:11:16] If she wanted an abortion, Lauren would have to travel out of state.
[00:11:21] When Lauren was 23 weeks pregnant, she began searching for appointments and was concerned she'd be unable to obtain an abortion. At this Stage.
[00:11:32] She was terrified of legal liability and avoided texting anyone about her plans.
[00:11:39] Luckily, family members in Maryland were able to provide logistical and financial support.
[00:11:46] Lauren was able to receive her abortion care there. At 24 weeks, Lauren would still like to have children. However, she is afraid to be pregnant in Texas again.
[00:12:04] Elizabeth Weller of Kingwood, Texas, had a relatively smooth pregnancy. At first, she opted out of genetic testing.
[00:12:13] Elizabeth herself was born with a physical disability, brachial plexus, erbs palsy, and she knew she would want to continue her pregnancy regardless.
[00:12:26] When Elizabeth was 19 weeks pregnant, her water broke. Elizabeth was informed that her baby would not survive and that to continue the pregnancy meant risking her fertility and her life.
[00:12:40] The staff refused to perform an abortion because Elizabeth had already been prescribed antibiotics, which in their terms meant she had put herself in a legal gray area by attempting to fend off the infection.
[00:12:56] The options Elizabeth was given were to stop taking the antibiotics and stay in the hospital or go home while monitoring herself for signs of worsening infection while also waiting for her baby to die inside of her.
[00:13:13] It wasn't until Elizabeth developed an infection in her placenta and the amniotic fluid when the medical board finally approved an abortion for her.
[00:13:24] Throughout this horrible ordeal, Elizabeth stated that her experience made her feel like she was being punished by the state of Texas for failing to carry a wanted pregnancy to term.
[00:13:37] She and her husband still want children, but they were traumatized by the experience and afraid of serious risks associated with being pregnant in Texas.
[00:13:54] When Kristin Anya's water broke at 16 and a half weeks, she went to the hospital and continued to lose more amniotic fluid, spiked a fever and began having rigors, which is uncontrollable shaking.
[00:14:10] These are early signs of sepsis.
[00:14:13] Kristin's doctors told her that her pregnancy could not continue without amniotic fluid, but since her daughter still had a heartbeat, the hospital would not provide abortion care unless her life was in danger.
[00:14:29] Over the next 22 hours, Kristin's fever climbed higher while she shook and then began vomiting constantly. Kristin's doctor brought her case to the hospital administration several times and was finally able to obtain permission for her to receive an abortion.
[00:14:49] Immediately after the procedure, her fever subsided and the vomiting stopped. Kristin recovered from the septic infection after spending 55 days in the hospital.
[00:15:02] Kristen and her husband would like to have children, but fear for her safety if she does get pregnant again in the state.
[00:15:16] Caitlin Cash of Austin found out at 13 weeks pregnant with her second child, her baby had severe skeletal dysplasia, which is a condition affecting bone and cartilage growth.
[00:15:31] This diagnosis meant that her baby would unlikely survive until birth or would suffocate soon after being born.
[00:15:40] Kaitlin asked what option would ensure the least amount of suffering for her baby. The maternal fetal medicine specialists recommended that she seek a quote sex second opinion. But outside of Texas, Caitlyn had to travel to Kansas to obtain her abortion care and was harassed by protesters as she went in and out of the clinic.
[00:16:06] After becoming pregnant a few months later, Caitlyn miscarried at seven weeks. Her doctor prescribed medication to help her pass the pregnancy. Due to the medication also being used for abortions, Kaitlin found it extremely hard to fill the prescription at any pharmacy.
[00:16:26] After another miscarriage without needing medical intervention, Kaitlin became pregnant and gave birth to a daughter in 2023.
[00:16:37] After she gave birth, she needed a dilation and curettage or D and C procedure to remove the remaining placenta dental tissue. But the hospital had difficulty locating the equipment and staff for the procedure.
[00:16:54] While waiting, Caitlin's condition deteriorated and after vomiting, losing blood and then losing consciousness, she was transferred to the icu.
[00:17:05] She was later told how lucky she was that she didn't lose her uterus.
[00:17:11] Caitlyn still wonders why the hospital had so much trouble providing her with routine postpartum care.
[00:17:24] De Allen of San Antonio discovered at about 17 weeks into her pregnancy that her baby had a possible neural tube defect such as anacephaly or spina Bifida. At her 19 week scan, she was informed her baby had anencephaly. Wanting to prevent more suffering for herself and her baby, Dee called out of state abortion clinics, most of which had four to eight week wait times.
[00:17:55] She was eventually able to access abortion care in San Diego.
[00:18:00] Losing her child and being forced to travel to California to to obtain health care were some of the worst moments in Dee's life.
[00:18:09] She was able to become pregnant again, but was always plagued by fear.
[00:18:21] Kimberly Manzano discovered she was pregnant again after a miscarriage a few months earlier.
[00:18:29] Her ultrasound at 10 weeks revealed that some some of the baby's organs were growing outside the body.
[00:18:36] Her maternal fetal medicine specialist was concerned that Kimberly's health was at risk and suggested she obtain an abortion out of state.
[00:18:47] After an MRI scan revealed that the baby's spine, genitalia, kidney, bladder and abdominal wall had not developed properly. Her specialist told Kimberly and her husband that if it was her baby, she would want him to be with God now.
[00:19:07] As devout Christians, Kimberly and her husband had always considered themselves to be anti abortion. But it became clear to them that abortion was their only option. Their baby had little or no chance of survival and if Kimberly continued the pregnancy, she would be at risk of infection since the baby had no bladder and urine was circulating in her uterus.
[00:19:34] At 18 weeks pregnant, Kimberly traveled out of state to obtain an abortion in New Mexico.
[00:19:41] Kimberly and her husband consider losing their baby to be the most challenging thing they have been through.
[00:19:48] Disgusted that people are made to feel like criminals for making such sacrifices, Kimberly believes it is not her place to judge someone else's decision about their pregnancy.
[00:20:08] While Dr. Danielle Matheson was still living in Texas, she learned that she was pregnant at her 18 week and anatomy scan. Her doctor diagnosed her baby with several lethal fetal conditions, including a hole in the spine, only one kidney and no form brain structures.
[00:20:31] She was told the baby was unlikely to survive or would slowly suffocate soon after birth.
[00:20:39] Danielle's doctor, who happened to also be her aunt, advised her to, quote, go on vacation to Colorado.
[00:20:48] Danielle was shocked that her family member was unable to help her or even openly discuss abortion due to Texas's bans.
[00:20:57] Dr. Matheson and her husband decided that abortion was the right decision to prevent further suffering for their baby and themselves.
[00:21:07] With clinics overflowing in Colorado due to patients from Texas, Danielle had to travel to New Mexico to receive care.
[00:21:17] Now Dr. Danielle Matheson resides in Hawaii and she was able to get pregnant again.
[00:21:30] Christina Nunez of El Paso was told she should never become pregnant due to the severe medical conditions she has, which include diabetes, cardiovascular issues and end stage renal disease.
[00:21:47] When she discovered she was pregnant at six weeks, she consulted her OB gyn who advised her to terminate the pregnancy so as not to risk her life.
[00:21:58] Christina's doctor told her that they would prevent present her case to the hospital administration, but she never heard back.
[00:22:07] Christina reached out to a New Mexico clinic, but was told that because of her medical condition, she was not eligible for medication abortion because she was too early in her pregnancy, she could not have a surgical abortion either.
[00:22:24] Throughout the next few weeks, Christina's health began to deteriorate rapidly, which required her to increase her dialysis treatments after her arm turned black and blue to blood clotting issues. Fearful she would have a pulmonary embolism and lose her arm, she went to the emergency room after 11 days of waiting and only after contacting an organization for legal support and translation services. Since Christina does not speak English, she finally received an abortion. She will never understand why she needed to become so sick before receiving proper medical care to save her life.
[00:23:16] Amy Coronado of Houston was several months of into her pregnancy when she was informed that her daughter's brain was not properly developed and that its appearance was consistent with Alobar piloprosencephaly, a condition in which the brain isn't divided into two hemispheres.
[00:23:37] Her maternal fetal medicine specialist informed Amy and her husband that there was little to no chance of their daughter surviving, providing in addition, if Amy were to continue the pregnancy, her health could be at risk, including complications from her gestational diabetes and the threat of infection, if her daughter died before Amy went into labor.
[00:24:05] Amy was informed of this fetal diagnosis on the same day Texas's trigger ban took effect.
[00:24:12] Her doctor was unable to refer her for an abortion, which is what he would have done prior to the ban.
[00:24:20] It was confirmed with another MRI that Amy's daughter had multiple brain anomalies consistent with Alabar holoprosencephaly. Amy had to travel outside of Texas to Albuquerque to obtain an abortion.
[00:24:36] Her insurance would not cover the procedure, so Amy was forced to pay out of pocket for the abortion procedure, her hotel stay and travel expenses.
[00:24:53] The case of Zarawski vs State of Texas was aimed to clarify the scope of these medical exceptions and to allow doctors to use their professional judgment in determining when an abortion is medically necessary. Their experiences highlight the real world consequences of the state's abortion bans and the fear among doctors of facing legal repercussions.
[00:25:19] The court rejected claims brought by the 20 women who were denied abortions despite dire pregnancy complications.
[00:25:28] The court declined to provide a claim clearer definition of the medical emergency exceptions within the state's abortion bans. This leaves doctors with continued uncertainty about when they can legally provide abortion care.
[00:25:45] Being forced to continue a pregnancy when the fetus has a fatal diagnosis can cause profound and lasting emotional trauma.
[00:25:55] Studies have shown that women denied abortions are more likely to experience experience depression and ptsd.
[00:26:03] Abortion bans can have a significant and detrimental impact on the mental and emotional health of women.
[00:26:11] Parents face the agonizing reality of grieving a child they haven't yet met while still carrying them.
[00:26:19] This anticipatory grief can be incredibly intense and prolonged.
[00:26:28] We will continue sharing stories of women who have been affected by abortion bans throughout the United States in upcoming episodes. If you or someone you know has a story they would like to share, please reach out to our email, which will be listed in our show Description SA.
